Erwin Teufel: “The State must not take upon itself what is done best at a lower level”

Erwin Teufel, former Minister-President of the German Land of Baden-Würtemberg and former President of the German Senate (Bundesrat), participated in the conference on democracy and decentralisation organised in Saint Gallen by the Swiss Presidency of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe, in cooperation with the Venice Commission of the Council of Europe and Saint-Gallen University. For him, decentralisation implies a top-down approach to power, the primary source of which has always been in fact the local community. “A true subsidiarity represents a different mentality, calling for the transfer of responsibilities from the bottom up, not the other way round”, he says in an interview.

Interview – 3 May 2010

Question: What are, in your view, the main benefits of decentralisation, from the experience of German federalism?

Erwin Teufel: I don’t like the word “decentralisation”. Decentralisation represents the mentality where the primary source of power is the national government, while regional and local communities must be glad that at least some competences are given to them by the decision from up on high. This is wrong. The primary source of power belongs to the local community which has the original and natural right to self-government. Within this right, the community determines that those issues that it cannot address efficiently must be transferred to a higher level, not the other way round. For example, a small community cannot build a hospital or a university, whereas the region cannot ensure national defence. On the other hand, the State must not take upon itself what is done best at a lower level.

Decentralisation and subsidiarity represent two basically different ways of thinking A true subsidiarity means the transfer of power from the bottom up, while decentralisation implies its top-down devolution. Yet, it is said that democracy means interfering in your own affairs; indeed, it is an obligation of citizens to participate in public affairs.  Subsidiarity is all about citizens’ participation in what is rightly theirs, because they are the original source of power and legitimacy. And European States, in their approach to decentralization and subsidiarity, must be thinking first and foremost about citizens.

Question: Do you consider that German Länder have sufficient competences and independence in decision-making vis-à-vis the federal level? Do you see possibilities of further evolution of decentralisation in Germany?

Erwin Teufel: The Basic Law of 1948 in Germany gave most competences to the Länder and some to the federal level. However, the federal level could, through legislation, give itself additional competences. Through this “gate”, the federal government has, over the decades, established a “legislative catalogue” pulling onto itself most of the competences. Some people are fine with this situation, but in the past few years, we saw a movement to reverse it and give the competences back to the Länder. It is true that the Länder can participate in federal legislating, and are responsible for culture, education, vocational training, public safety – but this is not nearly what was envisaged by the Basic Law. We want not just participate – we want to shape federalism. In the same spirit, the German Länder insisted on having a say in legislating at European level, through the Maastricht Treaty. So, this movement for more competences is underway and gaining ground.

Question: What is the role of such institutions as the Congress of the Council of Europe in helping further decentralisation?

Erwin Teufel: The Council of Europe and its Congress, other European institutions must insist on the clear definition of competences between the local, regional and national levels, all the way up to the European level. They must make sure that lists of such clearly defined competences are established within each country and in the relationship between States and the European Union. We must determine what a national government and European structures can and cannot do, so that they do not monopolise matters that can be solved at a lower level – national, regional or local. Europe will be powerful not because it is dealing with many issues, but because it is dealing with the right issues, those that truly transcend the competences of the national level. And the Congress must also watch against the tendency for re-centralisation by governments, which is always there.