Patrice Gélard : Second chambers are above all factors for democratic stability

Senator for Seine-Maritime and deputy mayor of Le Havre, Patrice Gélard (France) was asked by the Venice Commission to produce a report on the role of second chambers in legislative processes and on local and regional authority representation in such chambers. His report provided input to discussion at the colloquy on representation of local and regional authorities in second chambers which was held at the French Senate, Paris, on 21 February.

Interview – 21.02.2008

Question: According to your report on second chambers worldwide, 70 countries, 17 of them in Europe, have a second chamber, whose members often come from local or regional authorities. But do two-chamber systems always improve national representation of local and regional authorities?

Patrice Gélard: Second chambers are generally made up of local and regional elected representatives, but their structure and function vary considerably.  Some chambers are elected by direct universal suffrage, as in Belgium, Italy and the Czech Republic, or by indirect suffrage, as in France and the Netherlands. Others are both elected and appointed, as in Ireland or Spain, or totally appointed by the regions, as in Germany and Austria. Many countries, particularly those with fewer than 5 million people, do not have a second chamber, but in that case there are other bodies which perform the democratic control function.  Having elected second chambers does not necessarily guarantee local and regional authorities a place or role in them, and there is in fact no local or regional authority representation in the second chambers of several countries, such as Poland, the Czech Republic and Romania.

Question: So the situation varies a great deal.  But when it comes to how they operate, what are the second chambers which best represent the local and regional level? 

Patrice Gélard: Overall it is in the federal countries that the regions are best represented in second chambers, but that does not necessarily make those chambers more democratic.  Conversely, if local and regional authorities are not adequately represented, second chambers lose much of their value and are completely out of the public eye, as in the Czech Republic, where abstentions in elections to the second chamber generally run at around 70%.  It is important to strike a balance, while guaranteeing the local level a place and role in political institutions. I do not think it is a good thing for extremely powerful senates to cause institutional paralysis, as in Italy or Belgium.  First chambers – parliaments – must have larger powers than second ones because they are the repositories of the electorate's votes.

Question: Do you think it is necessary to "harmonise" the composition of second chambers for the benefit of the local and regional level?

Patrice Gélard: In my view the main thing is not the appointment method but the quality of the membership.  Senates must above all be think tanks and forces for democratic stability, as well as representing national diversity. They should not be duplicate parliaments.  Regions and local authorities have a place in them, of course, but I think that the state is still indispensable and that it is not for the regional and local level to usurp its functions.